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[Enhancement]: Remove "Check and Download New Episodes" #1504
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adam (Adam Melkus)
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Reference: starred/audiobookshelf#1504
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Originally created by @nichwall on GitHub (Nov 2, 2023).
Describe the feature/enhancement
As mentioned in Discord a few times around the release of 2.5.0, the "Episodes" tab causes confusion because people don't realize this tab does not set up the auto download schedule and is just a one time lookup. This section of the tab can be completely removed since the functionality is included in the "Find Episodes" button.
I don't think the rest of the tab should be removed right now, but it may be possible to merge it with the "Files" tab.
The only information that is really "lost" when searching is the absolute date of new episodes versus a relative date. The release date/time could be included under the "Find Episodes" modal.
@tonyedwardspz commented on GitHub (Nov 26, 2023):
I agree that this can be confusing. It took me a while to figure out how to best use the download functionality on the Episodes tab.
I have to admit, after using ABS for six months, I didn't know you could download entire series from the front end until I read this issue. Nore the functionality in the android app under search. Thank you for making me notice this @nichwall 🙏 It's much quicker when adding and downloading a series to the server one by one, in sequence, completely from the web UI on desktop.
That said, removing the download functionality from the episodes tab does more than loose the date information. It completely removes download functionality from the backend. Arguably, becuase there is no date against each episode on this tab, there's no information actually to be lost. . . only this functionality. Users not realising that the episodes tab isn't where scheduling is setup, isn't a reason to remove the download functionality imo, instead an opportunity to improve it.
Current usage of episodes tab
I've always used the backend to manage a podcast series, and the frontend (series page / latest etc) to consume. Others I know who use ABS do aswell, and this is a common setup for software with some focus on digital item management. With that paradim in mind, it makes sense to retain downloading episodes somewhere in the backend as well as from the find episode modal.
Being able to cycle through the series in a library using the arrows to download is great when setting up a new library is super useful. After adding a batch of new series from the new series search page (or from the android app), I work through them on the backend by setting the dropdown, change the limit to zero, press download, move straight to the next series (or the schedule tab) before even getting confirmation.
Doing the same on the front end requires much more clicking when batch adding new series as well as waiting for the rss feed to load before doing anything. Even then, the backend is still needed to setup scheduling, as the default when adding a new series isn't what I'm after, as well as any tweaking to tags, authors etc. I've gotta go to the backend when adding a new podcast series anyway, so doing everything there makes sense.
Potential Implementation
I agree the download functionality can be improved/simplified/made obvious on the episodes tab tho. The date drop down feels like it could be uneccessary.
Because there is no date listed against each episode when they are present on the server, the date dropdown is understandably confusing. At best, you have to think/know to remember to look at the most recent episodes date when on a series page before clicking edit. When setting up a fresh series, you have to know some publishing date information before choosing something useful from the dropdown (or choose a random date far in the past). As a new user to ABS, you're probably not used to even thinking about dates in this way in the context of consuming podcasts which likely contributes to the confusion new users experience.
Better use of dates
Completely agree with adding the date to the frontend episode search. It would be nice to see it somewhere in the backend as well now that I've noticed it's not there 😂
Download functionality improvements
I suspect that the majority who use the episodes tab want to either:
If this is the case, and approaching this with the aim of removing the date drop down, I think it could be replaced with a button that makes a request equivilent to setting:
The limit input and current button would then become equivilent to:
Including the limit number in the button text would emphasis the relationship between the input and the button.
If episodes for the series already exist on the server and listed on this tab, the download all button would change text (to avoid needing a third button) and become the equivilent of:
If no episodes are found on the server when the user opens the episodes tab, some wording such as "Download past episodes to start your series library" would make it clear what the episodes tab does.
This would cover the three most likely use cases mentioned above, and make the episodes tabs functionality clearer. The area of the Episodes Tab UI highlighed by OP would containg a total of two buttons and a number input.
Download functionality improvement (alternative)
An alternative approach could use a checkbox, similar to that on the find episode modal, to toggle the same settings as the download all button above and keep the UI for the same functionality consistant throughout. This would alter the text for the single button in the UI approapriatly. I think the former implementation would be much clearer.
Scheduling help
A sentance pointing towards the scheduling tab to set up automatic download of future episodes would help get new users get oriented within the server's podcast backend UI.
This would only be needed if a podcast hasn't got scheduling already set up. Another opportunity to check the "Auto Download Episodes" checkbox from the episodes tab, as presented after adding a podcast from the serach new podcast screen, would probably suffice for most users. This could fall onto it's own row under the buttons so that the user prompt is actually the label.
I can see why scheduling is kept seperate on the backend tho. Anyone who want's anything more exotic will be drawn to it (CRON 🙌)
@nichwall commented on GitHub (Nov 26, 2023):
Thanks for the detailed write up on alternatives. I've started a podcast guide for the website 3 different times to help people use podcast libraries and then never finished it. Maybe I'll finally do that today.
Would you mind making some mockups of what you mean with the buttons or what it could look like? I think I mostly followed, but that will make it easier for discussion about it when everyone sees the same thing (simple boxes in MS paint drawn over a screenshot works too)
@tonyedwardspz commented on GitHub (Nov 26, 2023):
You're welcome @nichwall . I knew I had thoughts on this, but had to put them in a straight line 😂
I think that would be a really useful bit of documentation for new users. I vaugly remember making a YouTube video on how to add podcasts to the server "my way" to help anyone else who completely missed the functionality on the search modal. I definatley would have landed on your doc at somepoint.
Mocking up the interface, visiting the episodes tab for a series with no episodes on the server would look something like this:
For a series with episodes already downloaded:
With these changes, the focus of this tab is more obvious. The user can now set auto downloading of new episodes using common defaults. The amount of scrolling / clicks needed for the 3 uses cases mentioned previously is greatly reduced.
Not sure on some of the wording I've added to the screens, but you should get my intent.
Bonus thoughts
When some episodes are already present on the server, I don't think it matters much if the user enters 10 into the limit box and the server only grabs 1 episode because that's all there is. No feedback needed in this case on this tab imo.
Now that I've mocked it up, I don't think theres a need for the additional wording mentioned pointing people towards the scehduling tab.
If the "sort" colum on the table of episodes was dropped, there would be room for a date colum after the title and before the length. Sort doesn't particuarly add anything to this specific screen.
Arguably, the file size column fits better on the files tab and is already present there. Dropping that column on the episodes tab could free up space for something more useful?? Episode completed state perhaps? If that adds extra page load time because of an additional DB lookup, the benefit of the completed state would be out weighed by drawback of load time increase imo. Particularly true for series's with large back catalogues stored on the server.
@tonyedwardspz commented on GitHub (Nov 26, 2023):
Thinking about the sort colum, that can actually be slightly confusing as it currently is. . . if an episode has been listened to from a series. For example, why is sort 1 missing in this image?
It's not abvious.
Perhaps the wording above the table could change from "Episodes" to "Unfininished Episodes" to better reflect what the table is showing. This makes the listened to state of individual episodes less of an attractive addition to the table.
An alternative use on spare space in the table could be series / episode numbers? That would place more emphasis on the episodes focus of this tab, as opposed to the files tab.
@advplyr commented on GitHub (Nov 26, 2023):
I planned on removing that sort column a while ago and forgot. I don't think we should put anything for downloading episodes in that tab, it should just show the episodes. We could create a new tab or add a button for bringing up the episodes from the RSS feed
@tonyedwardspz commented on GitHub (Nov 26, 2023):
I'd go for a download tab personally, however I can't think of much else to go on it that wouldn't be duplicated on either the Episode or files tab. Do you have thoughts? I'm not sure yet what's easily possible with the codebase/api.
Bringing up the rss feed from the episodes tab would work. Button wording could be along the lines of "Select Episodes". The auto download checkbox might still make sense here, with a tweak to the labels wording to something like "Automatically fetch new episodes".
Either way, a download all button on the RSS feed modal could be considered. Swapping the current checkbox for a button would make it stand out much more. Downloading all feels like an action (button) rather than an option (checkbox) given the context imo. If it stays as a checkbox, placing it at the top of the list of episodes in the modal would prevent it being missed.
@advplyr commented on GitHub (Nov 26, 2023):
I think this should be handled in the "Schedule" tab. The name of that may not be intuitive but it's the same name we use for scheduling library scans. In the backend this is just setting up another cron job.
@tonyedwardspz commented on GitHub (Nov 26, 2023):
That makes sense. I'm all for keeping that within the schedule tab tbf.