Some APL glyphs look odd #23

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adam · 2025-12-30T01:29:14+01:00

adam commented

2025-12-30 01:29:14 +01:00

Originally created by @abrudz on GitHub (Dec 15, 2025).

Originally assigned to: @sayyadirfanali on GitHub.

Myna:

SAX2:

The , in ⍪ is too high
The ; in ⍮ is too low
⊢ and ⊣ are too big
⊣ is too low
∘ in ⍤⍛⍝ are blobs instead of rings
∩ in ⍝ is too tall
∘ in ⍎⍕ are too big
⍎⍕ are too tall
⊇ has ¯ instead of _
⍱⍲ are too tall
≤≥ look like ⩽⩾ instead of <> with _
' in ⍞ is slanted

Hint: See SAX2 for a canonical APL font.

Originally created by @abrudz on GitHub (Dec 15, 2025). Originally assigned to: @sayyadirfanali on GitHub. Myna: <img width="1674" height="187" alt="Image" src="https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/3330f713-12e5-4d7c-aab5-eb0071402748" /> SAX2: <img width="1438" height="109" alt="Image" src="https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/3475e2b5-fdf2-4f62-8137-53e39a476b62" /> - [ ] The `,` in `⍪` is too high - [ ] The `;` in `⍮` is too low - [ ] `⊢` and `⊣` are too big - [ ] `⊣` is too low - [ ] `∘` in `⍤⍛⍝` are blobs instead of rings - [ ] `∩` in `⍝` is too tall - [ ] `∘` in `⍎⍕` are too big - [ ] `⍎⍕` are too tall - [ ] `⊇` has `¯` instead of `_` - [ ] `⍱⍲` are too tall - [ ] `≤≥` look like `⩽⩾` instead of `<>` with `_` - [ ] `'` in `⍞` is slanted Hint: See [SAX2](https://abrudz.github.io/SAX2/) for a canonical APL font.

adam added the enhancement bug labels 2025-12-30 01:29:14 +01:00

adam commented

2025-12-30 01:29:15 +01:00

@sayyadirfanali commented on GitHub (Dec 15, 2025):

thanks @abrudz for the detailed bug report.

before i make changes, can you please clarify some details?

are the , and ⍪ (and similarly ; and ⍮ are supposed to be aligned according to the vertical positioning of ,?
the choice in ≥ is deliberate to match with handwritten versions. is the _ necessary from semantic viewpoint?
the full jot in ⍤⍛⍝ is also a design-choice, although i've been told it's better if it's a circle for uniformity. so, can i instead make the ∘ to be a full disk (instead of a ring)? if not, i'd change the other 3 glyphs (including the comment, although imo this looks better).

i'm not an APL programmer by any means. so i'm unfamiliar with what aspects are upto the font designer vs relevant for program semantics.

@sayyadirfanali commented on GitHub (Dec 15, 2025): thanks @abrudz for the detailed bug report. before i make changes, can you please clarify some details? - are the `,` and `⍪` (and similarly `;` and `⍮` are supposed to be aligned according to the vertical positioning of `,`? - the choice in `≥` is deliberate to match with handwritten versions. is the `_` necessary from semantic viewpoint? - the full jot in `⍤⍛⍝` is also a design-choice, although i've been told it's better if it's a circle for uniformity. so, can i instead make the `∘` to be a full disk (instead of a ring)? if not, i'd change the other 3 glyphs (including the comment, although imo this looks better). i'm not an APL programmer by any means. so i'm unfamiliar with what aspects are upto the font designer vs relevant for program semantics.

adam commented

2025-12-30 01:29:15 +01:00

@abrudz commented on GitHub (Dec 15, 2025):

, and ⍪ are very related in APL, and thus should look alike
⍮ isn't really related to ; so their alignment is less importment, and you can see in SAX2 and APL387 that they indeed are slightly misaligned, for clarity
The solid ∘ as a style is fair enough, even though it has always been a ring in all APL fonts, but ∘ is used for function composition in traditional mathematical notation (as well as in APL) and in the former it is sometimes even pronounced ring, which would be confusing if not actually a ring. The other APL glyphs, however, are officially character compositions of ∘ with various decorators (and some have related functionality), so they really need to be consistent. Therefore, all things considered, I think ∘ and the related characters do need to have a hollow ring.

@abrudz commented on GitHub (Dec 15, 2025): - `,` and `⍪` are very related in APL, and thus should look alike - `⍮` isn't really related to `;` so their alignment is less importment, and you can see in SAX2 and [APL387](https://dyalog.github.io/APL387/) that they indeed are slightly misaligned, for clarity - The solid `∘` as a style is fair enough, even though it has always been a ring in all APL fonts, but `∘` is used for function composition in traditional mathematical notation (as well as in APL) and in the former it is sometimes even pronounced _ring_, which would be confusing if not actually a ring. The other APL glyphs, however, are officially character compositions of `∘` with various decorators (and some have related functionality), so they really need to be consistent. Therefore, all things considered, I think `∘` and the related characters do need to have a hollow ring.

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Reference: starred/Myna#23